The Clark Perle Double Act

General Wesley Clark, former Supreme Allied Commander Europe and a Democrat contender in the last US presidential election, and Richard Perle, former US Assistant Secretary of Defense and an adviser to the Bush and other Republican administrations, took part in a question and answer session. It was chaired by Riz Khan.

They covered topics raised by members of the audience, ranging from Sudan, Iraq, Iran and North Korea to the “American Empire” and the post-Cold War era.

Sudan

Clark: “US forces with a [United Nations] mandate and adequate cover should go in and stop the ethnic cleansing and genocide in Darfur. It has gone on long enough. Enough is enough. It must stop.”

Perle: Agreeing with Clark, he said the US should also have taken action in Rwanda in the 1990s. At that time the US was hindered by United Nations rules which limited the right to intervene to cross-border conflicts. “We need to modernise the United Nations. It is a tragedy every time we stand by and ignore… the killing of innocents.”

Iraq

Clark: “I never saw Iraq as a similar case to Vietnam... It was clear to me that the fight against Saddam would be over in two or three weeks. I did not anticipate the degree of insurgency… I think we should talk to other powers in the region, saying a stable democratic Iraq is in their interests and it is not in their interest to fan an insurgency.”

General Clark said the US armed forces were trained to invade but not to occupy. “National security must be the responsibility of the Iraqis. I think we are one or two years away from that.”

Asked about reported mistreatment of prisoners by US soldiers at Abu Ghraib, Clark said: “It is not in accordance with anything we teach in the US armed forces… I know every poll shows a tremendous anger against the US for actions inside Iraq but that action is over. The invasion was done and now [the task] is simply to do the right thing for the people of that country. They need training and economic development.”

Perle: “The situation in Iraq is continuing to unfold… The people have said they want democratic institutions. They stood up and voted with great courage and pride. The ink-stained finger became the symbol of a dedication to move ahead. That inspiring moment has had effects elsewhere.
“We have seen a million Lebanese on the streets of Beirut demanding an end to the Syrian presence, Egyptian President Mubarrak opening up the political process… Throughout the world, Topic A is now democracy and democratic choice”

Iran:

Perle: “I do not expect military action in Iran. I do not believe it would serve any useful purpose. I hope the people of Iran will find their own voice and appoint their own government – not allow themselves to be run by a bunch of mullahs with dictatorial powers who robbed them of the last election.”

North Korea:

Perle: “The government of North Korea is a brutal dictatorship. I wish we had the capacity to end all brutal dictatorships, but obviously we don’t… Given the devastation that has been wrought by successive dictators in North Korea, it might collapse under its own weight…”

“American Empire”

Clark: Asked whether the armed forces of “the American Empire” were stretched too thinly, he said the real power of the US was the power of its ideas, that people are created equal and that they should play a part in choosing their own governments.

“The United States is in no sense an empire: it is the custodian of a set of ideas that are spreading around the world… and will make it safer for all of us.”

Post-Cold War Era:
Clark said he believed the expansion of NATO eastwards should bring a sense of stability and order to Russia’s borders. “There is no reason why Russia itself cannot become a member of NATO at some point... I hope one day it will be a member.”